FSP Group Launches the World's First SFX 12VO 750W Power Supply (2024)

Its the begging of the end for PSUs as we know them now. :eek::rolleyes:

I do like a good efficient PSU.

Source: FSP - www.fsp-group.com/en/news-130.html
Some sites - for example Tom's Hardware (www.tomshardware.com/news/fsp-announces-sfx-12vo-psu) have dug out pictures of the other side of that PSU as well:

LnxepiqueFinally... I would have needed this for a small server build a year ago, as Asrock has been manufacturing server boards with the new standard for a while now... currently using the ugly, huge adapter.

Servers have been using 4-pin 12V-only power supplies for quite a while, but AFAIK they have nothing to do with ATX12VO. Does yours have a 10-pin input?

I'm keen on PSU's getting smaller and more efficient, but worried this will just add costs to mobos or other peripherals

Like the most obvious example right now, is all the ARGB devices that use a good chunk of amperage on 5V. Something, somewhere has to scale that voltage down and it won't be free to the end user

Are we just gunna get some kind of 12V->5V box to slap in? Are mobos expected to do this? Are we meant to transition everything to 12V (i'd guess not, with USB loving its 5V goodness)

MusselsAre we just gunna get some kind of 12V->5V box to slap in? Are mobos expected to do this? Are we meant to transition everything to 12V (i'd guess not, with USB loving its 5V goodness)

Mobos are expected to do this.

londisteMobos are expected to do this.

Yeah that worries me

I dont want my mobo to fry cause corsairs new fans have 120 LED's or something, ya know?

MusselsYeah that worries me

I dont want my mobo to fry cause corsairs new fans have 120 LED's or something, ya know?

Low voltage DC-DC conversion circuits, both buck and boost converters, are tiny, dirt cheap, incredibly efficient (94%-ish if implemented poorly, 96-97% if done well), and motherboard makers can, if they want to, just copy-paste in an off-the-shelf design from someone else if that's easier for them. If they manage to screw this up, they have to try pretty hard. This will increase BOM costs for motherboards by a handful of dollars, but it really isn't a problem. Given that you can find 10A buck converters on Ebay for a handful of dollars, motherboard manufacturers can implement them for a lot, lot less than that. Of course, they already make massive CPU VRMs, so they could just slap a couple more phases on there, use the exact same components but make them output 5V instead of ~1V, and you'd be golden. Even a single 50A power stage would give you pretty much all the 5V power you'd ever need, without needing to run it especially hard either. Given that 5V sinks generally don't care about transient response you could just double them up, of course. They'd already have heatsinking too.

This is really, really, really not a problem. Remember, OEMs have been running proprietary 12V-only PSUs and motherboards for something like half a decade. Why? To cut costs while also meeting new and stricter environmental standards. There's no reason for this to be expensive, and it has lots of benefits to boot.

ValantarLow voltage DC-DC conversion circuits, both buck and boost converters, are tiny, dirt cheap, incredibly efficient (94%-ish if implemented poorly, 96-97% if done well), and motherboard makers can, if they want to, just copy-paste in an off-the-shelf design from someone else if that's easier for them. If they manage to screw this up, they have to try pretty hard. This will increase BOM costs for motherboards by a handful of dollars, but it really isn't a problem. Given that you can find 10A buck converters on Ebay for a handful of dollars, motherboard manufacturers can implement them for a lot, lot less than that. Of course, they already make massive CPU VRMs, so they could just slap a couple more phases on there, use the exact same components but make them output 5V instead of ~1V, and you'd be golden. Even a single 50A power stage would give you pretty much all the 5V power you'd ever need, without needing to run it especially hard either. Given that 5V sinks generally don't care about transient response you could just double them up, of course. They'd already have heatsinking too.

This is really, really, really not a problem. Remember, OEMs have been running proprietary 12V-only PSUs and motherboards for something like half a decade. Why? To cut costs while also meeting new and stricter environmental standards. There's no reason for this to be expensive, and it has lots of benefits to boot.

I have zero knowledge on that side of electronics and electricity, and will happily admit it

I just see we get very low power limits as it is on fan headers and ARGB headers and worry we're gunna end up with a decade of "oops i blew up my mobo plugging in lights"

ValantarLow voltage DC-DC conversion circuits, both buck and boost converters, are tiny, dirt cheap, incredibly efficient (94%-ish if implemented poorly, 96-97% if done well), and motherboard makers can, if they want to, just copy-paste in an off-the-shelf design from someone else if that's easier for them. If they manage to screw this up, they have to try pretty hard. This will increase BOM costs for motherboards by a handful of dollars, but it really isn't a problem. Given that you can find 10A buck converters on Ebay for a handful of dollars, motherboard manufacturers can implement them for a lot, lot less than that. Of course, they already make massive CPU VRMs, so they could just slap a couple more phases on there, use the exact same components but make them output 5V instead of ~1V, and you'd be golden. Even a single 50A power stage would give you pretty much all the 5V power you'd ever need, without needing to run it especially hard either. Given that 5V sinks generally don't care about transient response you could just double them up, of course. They'd already have heatsinking too.

This is really, really, really not a problem. Remember, OEMs have been running proprietary 12V-only PSUs and motherboards for something like half a decade. Why? To cut costs while also meeting new and stricter environmental standards. There's no reason for this to be expensive, and it has lots of benefits to boot.

OEM mobos are not set up for RGB circuits or enthusiast use. They also use dirt cheap MOSFETs to save a buck, doesnt make them good. They use 12 volt only supplies largely to make the PSUs cheaper, but the mobos are more expensive as a counter, although outside of the optional optical drive the only real use for 5v is any USB peripherals (and in my experience, once you get 6-7 plugged in, if any draw significant power you start to run into issues, at least with the dell optiplex line).

And fact is, if something makes a mobo cost another $0.40, it'll cost the end user another $35. Not to mention on mini ITX and micro ATX boards, there really isnt enough room, unless of course all that circuitry can fit in half the space of an ATX 20 pin connector left over from using the new 12VO standard. Even full ATX boards are getting rather crowded.

TheinsanegamerNOEM mobos are not set up for RGB circuits or enthusiast use. They also use dirt cheap MOSFETs to save a buck, doesnt make them good. They use 12 volt only supplies largely to make the PSUs cheaper, but the mobos are more expensive as a counter, although outside of the optional optical drive the only real use for 5v is any USB peripherals (and in my experience, once you get 6-7 plugged in, if any draw significant power you start to run into issues, at least with the dell optiplex line).

And fact is, if something makes a mobo cost another $0.40, it'll cost the end user another $35. Not to mention on mini ITX and micro ATX boards, there really isnt enough room, unless of course all that circuitry can fit in half the space of an ATX 20 pin connector left over from using the new 12VO standard. Even full ATX boards are getting rather crowded.

But that's exactly the thing - that hardware can fit in that space, or even less. How much board space does a single CPU VRM phase take up, including filtering? And yes, it's obvious that OEMs aim for the lowest acceptable level - I never said their implementations were perfect after all, I just used them as an example of how a 12VO-like setup can be both cheaper and more efficient when taking the whole system into account. It's obvious that this will increase motherboard costs, and I have never said otherwise. But your near-1000% markup is nonsense. A few hundred percent? Sure. But as I said in the previous post, these are components that board makers already buy in massive quantities, they know how to implement, and if not they can use off-the-shelf designs for cheap that work excellently and don't need much board space. It will absolutely drive up board BOMs by a few dollars when accounting for 5V for USB and LEDs and 3.3V for NVMe, but the great thing is that board makers can scale this to fit the board - no need for a 3.3V supply scaled for four m.2 drives if your board only has two, etc. That means less waste materials, less waste energy, less price increase. The premium boards will of course get ridiculously overblown power supplies, but those are already at $500+, so the change will be negligible. For mainstream boards in the $100-200 range, the difference from this will be in the $10-20 range, maximum. PCIe 4.0 and 5.0, DDR5 and USB 3.2G2x2 are much bigger drivers for motherboard price increases, with increased layer counts and higher quality PCB materials. Compared to that, this change is nothing at all.

ValantarServers have been using 4-pin 12V-only power supplies for quite a while, but AFAIK they have nothing to do with ATX12VO. Does yours have a 10-pin input?

Oh wow, I can't believe I mixed those up, you are right - it's just a 4-Pin-12V input...

Now I feel like an idiot :D but thanks for clarifying!

LnxepiqueOh wow, I can't believe I mixed those up, you are right - it's just a 4-Pin-12V input...

Now I feel like an idiot :D but thanks for clarifying!

Nothing to feel stupid for, these competing "standards" are confusing AF. The only reason I know about this is from reading about people doing straight 12V-powered SFF server builds, which is a pretty small niche!