A wacky oral history about the origin of the Pistons’ teal jersey, horse logo and Hooper (2024)

Around 1994, with the Pistons’ famed “Bad Boys” era no more, the organization was looking for a fresh start. Detroit was no longer at the NBA pinnacle. It had a new franchise player in Grant Hill. Slowly but surely, the Pistons were transitioning to a new era — a teal era.

The adjustment was not met with great applause. Teal turned out to be too drastic of a change from the previous team colors. The win-loss record during the era didn’t help either: The Pistons posted only two winning seasons with teal as the primary team color: in 1996-97, the first season for the new uniforms, and in 1999-2000. By the time the 2001-02 season tipped off, the teal was gone.

Now, though, the uniforms are deemed, dare we say, cool. They’re considered colorful and creative. A segment of Pistons fans are clamoring for them to return. Not a game day goes by without a teal Hill jersey spotted in the stands. Andre Drummond and Blake Griffin have worn the shorts from that era. Griffin asked fans via Instagram if the team should bring the teal back. Two decades later, there’s a cool factor associated with the uniform and logo that was missing back when they were introduced.

The organization has moved on, though. There are no plans to revive the uniforms synonymous with a gloomy period in Detroit basketball history. That moment will remain, well, a moment.

This is the story of how Detroit’s red, white and blue uniforms transformed into teal, how the basic but effective basketball logo became a horse with pipes, and how both generated the Pistons’ first mascot.

Why teal?

Tom Wilson, former president and CEO of Palace Sports and Entertainment: There was a move at the time to shake things up. I don’t want to say that it was league-originated, but they wanted teams to look at their logos, look at their colors and everything. The NBA said, “We got a lot of things that have been around for a long time.”

Tom O’Grady, NBA creative director in the 1990s: This was definitely driven by the team, though. They’re the ones soliciting us to do it. … I think with the Pistons, I think that they had just maybe grown a little tired of that, you know, 1989-90 “Bad Boys” look. And the league, I don’t think, was really all ever that excited about that. David Stern wasn’t the biggest fan of, you know, encouraging teams to wear skulls and crossbones or doing things like that, for good reasons.

John Ciszewski, vice president of sales from 1988-2009: What I remember early on is that the NBA, the league office, was encouraging us to look at our jersey, look at our logo. A lot of teams were reinventing themselves at that time, and the “Bad Boys” era was over. I think Joe Dumars was the only crossover. Grant Hill had just come in. We were looking at a fresh start with things. The league did a lot of focus groups and studies, and teal was a hot color back then. I think our mind was made up on what direction we wanted to go, and the league just helped us with the process.

Wilson: At this time also, we had the Detroit Vipers (of the International Hockey League). They were teal and purple. That proved to be a very, very popular jersey as well. A lot of the push was to gear toward the younger fans. You were starting to see some animated logos and even more use of mascots and things like that. The things you do at different times …

O’Grady: The Charlotte Hornets started it all. They were the leaders. Alexander Julian, the fashion designer, who was kind of an outsider in that category and in that business in 1988, came up with that concept, but that predated me — I wasn’t even there yet. But that was the one that really set the world on fire when it came to teal, and everybody else was an imitator. The Marlins, the Sharks and the Jaguars. The Grizzlies were turquoise, so the Grizzlies were not teal if you look at their color carefully. It’s a different shade altogether.

Wilson: We brought some people in, looked at a variety of colors and, at that time, there were varieties of teal, and we had our group of five or six that looked at colors. The color that it came out to be wasn’t the one we thought we selected. We thought we picked a deeper blue than the one we got.

Around that time, the San Jose Sharks had just exploded with their teal uniforms, and the Dolphins had theirs. We just, sort of, looked at that color and at the same time were looking at a new logo. We thought we’d roll them all out together. We had a young team. Grant had just got there and Allan Houston had been there for a little. We thought he’d be there for a long time, too. And, yeah, it didn’t go as well as we would have liked.

Ciszewski: It takes two years to switch jerseys and logos. That’s the rules within the league because of manufacturing and how much inventory there is out there. They don’t want to stick teams with a lot of inventory. That’s why a player changing his number has to wait a certain period.

Grant Hill, Pistons player from 1994-2000: I don’t even know if I knew that a change was coming. That last year, 1995-96, Allan Houston had a really good year, and there was sort of a feeling that the two of us as young players had a bright future in front of us.

Wilson: I remember we had a big fashion show in the lobby of the Palace, the main entrance, and Grant Hill and Allan Houston wore some of the stuff. We had merchandise, a big bus that we put the guys in the new uniforms on. … It was a rebrand after we had beaten the “Bad Boys” to death. It was time for something fresh, new, young and completely different. Unpopular I would add, too.

Hill: That summer was interesting. We had the Olympics and then Allan ended up leaving Detroit (for the Knicks). About a month ago, I sent Allan a picture of us at the unveiling of the new uniforms. That’s the only time he wore the teal uniform.

O’Grady: Initially, the logo that they gave to us had maroon, silver, black and might have had a touch of light blue. Just think the Michigan Panthers football team from the USFL. That was going to be their new jersey colors.

The reason that those colors got put on hold, as I recall, was because we were doing work for the Sacramento Kings at the exact same time, and they were completely locked into maroon, gold and black with a touch of light blue, like the 49ers — which is why they didn’t go with it after all, because after we presented that to them, they’re like, “This is so cool, but we think a little bit too much like the 49ers.” So, we shifted to the purple, black and silver that you see for the Kings. So, while those colors are being parked for the Kings, the Pistons had to keep moving. The idea, really, the idea and color isn’t a red, it’s more like a cardinal, sunburst yellow color and the teal.

Believe it or not, it was tied to traffic lights — the green, yellow and red was how we were pushing it, to put some logic to it.

Hill: For me, obviously, I didn’t grow up a Pistons fan, but I didn’t think you could do much better than red, white and blue. This is the mindset of a 22-year-old. I was with Fila at the time, and they were red, white and blue. That was perfect for me. Teal was a lot different.

Billy Berris, Detroit artist, co-creator of the “Bad Boys” logo and visual co-creator of the Pistons’ horse logo: The color combinations I had given (the NBA) were incorporating some of the color combinations from the “Bad Boys” logo. I was doing it with some silver, black, orange, maroon and glitter, especially because of the tailpipes and design there. That’s what I submitted to the NBA, and when they came back with those teal colors, Tom (Wilson) called me and I looked at it, laughed and said, “I’m not too happy with those colors.”

Robin Brant, Detroit artist, co-creator of the “Bad Boys” logo and visual co-creator of the Pistons horse logo: Billy and I got together after they picked the logo and sent a colored copy over to Billy. I went over to his place to see it. Before he showed it to me, he said, “Now, don’t get upset.” He showed me the logo and I freaked out. I was like, “What the hell did they do with these colors?” It was insanely stupid. Here’s some guy in New York trying to put together a color combination for a blue-collar town like Detroit. I was born and raised in Detroit. I said, “There is no way we’re doing this California-teal crap.” I tried to fight it, but the NBA said no. They said, “These are the colors of the future.”

Wilson: We were red, white and blue. We were classic. My recollection was that Joe Dumars, more than anyone, hated (the new colors). He just thought that the red, white and blue were classic. … I believe people thought they were a little soft. This is Detroit, and we’re not soft.

Hill: I had only been there for two years. I just thought it was a little odd or weird. It’s nothing I went and complained about to management. You want us to wear this? Let’s go.

O’Grady: The teal, so … listen: I was semi-against it, and the other option I would have presented would have been black. I think if you take that design and just flip it and make it a black design with the horse head, that would have been ridiculous and badass.

It was a drastic change. It’s probably a good page in the annals of sports branding for the Pistons. They probably needed a tweener between there. They went from 0 to 60 in a year. Even if it was a really beautiful design, perfect, I still think there needed to be a middle ground there.

Craig Turnbull, Pistons vice president of branding in early 2000s: When you say sales, obviously there are many aspects of sales for a professional sports team. One of them is that you sell some jerseys. The bigger concern is connection with fans. And if you connect with fans — and you do need to win, wins and losses do matter — if it misses the mark in terms of a connection with the fans, then you’re headed backward. I’m afraid that’s probably what happened. As much as it was well-intended by the league and the Pistons to provide a fresh, new look and feel … you’re in one of America’s great blue-collar cities, extended north, of course, in Auburn Hills, and teal is not really what would be considered a strong color.

Ciszewski: I think it was timing, too. We were coming off the “Bad Boys” years, had some tough years and people clamor for the good ol’ days. I just think the timing wasn’t necessarily right for us to come out with the teal jersey. Teal just didn’t seem like hardworking, blue-collar Detroit.

Wilson: After three or four years, it just wasn’t catching on. It takes two years to change, whichever way you’re going. When we went to teal, it took two years to do it, and when we went away from teal, it took two years to do it. The best part of the teal was when we stopped using it, the other stuff became extraordinarily popular. The timing was right because it was just the beginning of the “Goin’ to Work” Pistons. We were able to bring the original colors back as we won the championship.

Ciszewski: The “Bad Boys,” when you look back at that, it was such physical basketball, and I think our uniforms represented that. When we went to the teal, you know, you became a softer team, so to speak. I think that’s why a lot of people resented it.

Turnbull: You can understand why teams that are stuck in a place are grasping for something to catch people’s attention. They attempted to do that. They probably just missed a little bit.

Had Ben Wallace come to our team at that point and wore that jersey, it might have been received a little differently because of his style of play.

The creation of the horse logo

O’Grady: So, we (the NBA) were working with a couple different designers, and I was overseeing this concept for a hood ornament for the Pistons. We had a hood-ornament idea which is really cool, you know, this kind of 1910, 1920 Rolls-Royce idea. We were doing something that was to link to that kind of “Bad Boys” thing. I think it was a skull and crossbones, but it was in the shape of a nut on the top … a six-sided wing nut with two wrenches underneath it. So, instead of bones, it was wrenches, and then it was in a black circular shape with a gear on the outside, almost like the Bachman-Turner Overdrive logo.

(Courtesy of Tom O’Grady)

It was cool. It was very flat. It was very simple. It was very much almost like what the Denver Nuggets went with this year, like a more iconic graphic — nothing like what they presented to us with this, like, really big horsepower idea. That was all driven by them, this concept of horsepower.

Berris: I created the Detroit “Bad Boys” logo as well, and when they were going to look for a new logo, I had told Tom Wilson that, if he wanted, I’d be glad to work on it for him. He said, “Right now, the NBA is doing logos, and they’ve sent me some stuff.” I asked him how they looked and he said, “Not so great.” He wasn’t happy with what the NBA was submitting to him.

Brant: The biggest thing about it was the concept. Tom (Wilson) had said the San Jose Sharks had just came out with their new jersey, a newer team, and people were buying the jersey before they even played their first game. Tom said he wanted some character, something with some teeth, something that the kids could relate to like the Sharks. I remember saying, “Tom, it’s a car part. You guys are the Pistons. You’re not a shark, bro.” The idea of the whole concept was horsepower. I wanted to come up with something that symbolized the automotive world. I spent several weeks, hundreds of sketches, before we came up with this horsepower concept.

I remember placing what I came up with on Tom’s desk and thinking he wasn’t going to go for this. I put it on his desk and he got it right away.

Wilson: They came up with a horsepower idea and it resonated with all of us. We thought it was pretty cool. We didn’t take as much grief over the logo, although anytime you make a change you’re going to have some percentage, whether big or small, that’ll hate whatever you did.

Brant: Tom (O’Grady) and I had spoken on the phone after Tom Wilson and I decided that was the logo they wanted to go with. I had received a call from Tom O’Grady and he introduced himself. He made a comment. He wasn’t a big fan of the art I did, I don’t believe. He said something like, “Had I known they wanted this horsepower theme, I think we could have done a little better than that.” I was like, “Well, Tom, that’s the whole thing. You didn’t think about it.” That’s really where the key is. Through Billy, I was able to sit down with Tom Wilson a couple of times. I wanted to get inside of his head because I knew he would be the one making the decision. I said, “Tom, I know you picked out the Detroit Vipers logo from back in the day, the hockey team.” He said, “Yeah.” I asked him what it was specifically about that logo that he liked. He said, “I think I like the way the ‘V’ turned into a hockey stick.” So, when I came up with the Pistons logo, I made sure that I turned the “S” in the Pistons logo into chrome pipes to represent a more automotive feel.

O’Grady: That was all driven by them, this concept of horsepower. … It was fine because, hey, you know, the final decisions were always left up to Tom Wilson, who takes it up to (then-Pistons owner) Bill Davidson. They were the ones running the show. And we didn’t have really any … we didn’t have any reluctance doing it.

Brant: People thought it was a mustang, but it was a more general thing, a horsepower concept. Of course, that helped create Hooper and Mini Hooper, the mascots to go with it. It gave the team a character, a face to go with it.

Berris: We came up with that and the mascot, Hooper, as well. When I sat down with Tom (Wilson), he said, “Listen, Billy. In terms of being compensated for the logo, I have to negotiate that with the NBA because they would have the rights to it.” He told the NBA that he worked with a company here and that we did something he really liked.

When I originally called and spoke to someone at the creative department, I told them who I was. I got to the right person and said to them, “I saw that you submitted some different colors on the design and that’s not what I put down. I’m curious, why did you change it?” That person said, “We have a whole creative art department and we think this is the color scheme that we’re going with.” I’m thinking to myself, “How creative are you? You spent three months trying to come up with a logo for the Pistons that they didn’t like.” They said, “Well, we don’t usually pay outside people for their service, we do it in-house.” I said, “Well, you’re going outside now.” He said we’ll offer you $500. I said to the guy, “$500?” Just like that. I said, “$500 is not going to get it done.” I already know that the NBA accepted the logo and the Pistons wanted it. I told them they need to come back to me. I was pretty insulted. Also, after we agreed upon a much larger amount, I talked to Tom about doing a secondary logo, because they had tailpipes and the horse head over the basketball. They had a contest for the name of the mascot.

Two of the first illustrations of what would become the Pistons’ mascot, Hooper. (Courtesy of Robin Brant)

Turnbull: When we took away the teal, we still had to keep elements of the logo. … In hockey, one of the greatest places to make that change is at center ice, so we made that change at center court. It was part of a far bigger evolution within the organization. We changed all the way down to the uniforms our staff wore inside the arena. They went to a red, white and blue work-looking shirt. It was a neatly pressed Oxford. It flushed through the entire organization. … And the big thing is that we started winning. I told a guy earlier that this isn’t a story we’re talking about if we didn’t win the championship in 2004.

And now … some fans want the teal uniforms back

Wilson: It’s funny, ain’t it?

Ciszewski: I’m good friends with the merchandising manager for the Pistons, and they brought (the teal) out a few years ago and he said that stuff just flew off the shelves. It’s crazy. I see it all the time at their games.

O’Grady: Mitchell and Ness really started this again because they started pulling stuff out of the mothballs about five or six years ago and were like, “OK, we’re going to redo the Vince Carter Raptors jersey,” and it’s selling like crazy. They can’t keep it in stock, like the Mike Bibby Grizzlies jersey and the Grant Hill Pistons jersey. All of a sudden that stuff is flying off the shelves again after all this time.

Hill: I think it’s something that is liked and appreciated more now than it was then. I think, right now, in popular culture, fashion, things from the ’90s are hot. You see it in clothing and shoes. I don’t know who the target demographic is, but I think it’s hot. Young people today like retro, like the story behind it. It was just a short window, five or six years, where the teals were alive. That probably plays a little bit of a role.

I was in Detroit a couple of weeks ago for the Democratic debate, and you would have thought it was the ’90s. I was getting love.

Brant: I am a little surprised that people are starting to dig it again. … It feels kind of good.

O’Grady: I think the NBA made a big mistake. I think when Nike came on board, they started overthinking all this stuff and forgot that they’re in sports entertainment and worry too much about the precision of a backstory and a hype video and, you know, how they’re going to sell the merchandise and how they’re going to reduce the manual manufacturing costs. So, I think Nike screwed up about a 15-year era for NBA uniforms. I think everything is so bland and predictable and nothing that, you know, energized the eyes. Basketball, more than anything, is the most sports-entertainment brand on the planet. I mean, I felt like they were going into this intramural style for a sport that does not need that. That’s not who they are.

Turnbull: The coolness of that teal showing up in many different places nowadays, the retro feel, it’s not unlike the Astros jersey of when I was a kid.

Brant: I think the classic, old-school guys like myself always want the classic stuff. But the new kids coming up want something different. Things go in different cycles. You look at the comics, and Captain America has this classic uniform and then they’ll just change it for no reason, just to change it. The classic guys are like, “Oh, no. They changed the uniform,” and the new kids are like, “It’s cool, it’s stylish.”

O’Grady: Here’s the dividing line: I’m on a Facebook page and you show the Raptors uniform on there, the original, and it’s “Like, Hate or Love.” And the hate comes from anybody over 50 who loves the Celtics uniform or who loves the Lakers uniforms or loves the Spurs uniforms or loves the Bulls uniforms. … And then you have the people 40 years and under, the millennials, that are like, “Boring, drab, those suck,” you know? It’s because they grew up and were wearing the Charlotte Hornets Starter jacket or the Orlando Magic Starter jacket. Those kids have come of age and their recall and memories are all about this bright, in-your-face NBA stuff, the “I Love This Game” era. That’s their brand. That’s who they are. It’s like your father’s Oldsmobile, those older uniforms. And, really, that’s the dividing line.

(Top photo of Grant Hill and Joe Dumars: Sam Forencich / NBAE via Getty Images)